Paul Mac
Posts:56
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| 27 Sep 2006 07:39:27 |
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| I got some information from a solicitors firm in Bristol about hmos warning landlords that if you operate an unlicenced hmo you can't charge the tenant any rent and on top of that you can't serve a notice to quit. As far as I can tell this isn't just in Bristol but it's the same all over the country. I read somewhere that someone had estimated that only about 25% of hmos had been registered so i guess that there's a lot of rent out there not getting collected. |
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Lizzie
Posts:25
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| 27 Sep 2006 08:23:21 |
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| Isn't it a £20000 fine as well????? |
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Paul Mac
Posts:56
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| 27 Sep 2006 08:28:11 |
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| It's up to £20,000 and at the discretion of the individual local authortiy |
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dminkin
Posts:26
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| 27 Nov 2006 17:51:38 |
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You can charge the tenant rent.But they can claim it back if they know the law.
Just a warning too:
One of my properties is a 3 storey HMO.Was for 5 sharers or a company let.Now mandatory licensable.
It complied with fire regs etc(Fire alarm,sensors,fire doors with closers.emergency lighting etc) before.
On the 5 yearly inspection recently the council informed me that all was ok but they will be requiring wash hand basins in every bedroom.
Impossible I said.One ground floor bedroom not possible as concrete floors and can't get waste to drain.
So now I have to let to a family or only 4 sharers not 5.Costing me less rent and a needless fire alarm.
they claim following new government guidelines.What idiot thought of that one?
More risk of flooding house,water pressure problems,but nice clean tenants.
The NLA is lobbying the government against this rule and the welsh assembly have scrapped the requirement.So yet again different rules for different parts of the country!
I recommend everyone join the NLA. |
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gilbertcat
Posts:7
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| 30 Nov 2006 13:19:28 |
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We have 2 houses for students in Lancaster on 3 floors tht require HMO licence. We have registered with the Local Authority who will in time grant a licence /require upgrades. This may include wasbasins in each room. our student tenants emphatically do not want them as will take up unecessary room etc. I am trusting that the Local Authority will excercise their discretion and not insist on this.
Has anyone experience of Authorities waiving this rule? |
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ronmi
Posts:2
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| 01 Dec 2006 16:50:01 |
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In Wales it has been decided by the welsh asswmbly that wash basins are not practical and our Council, Cardiff, is not insisting on them.
Ron |
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gilbertcat
Posts:7
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| 02 Dec 2006 03:08:34 |
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If Wales has scrapped the requirement for sinks, will this give landlords of HMOs in England anan argument for Councils to waive the requirement , using their discretionry powers?
Also, will it not be potentially dangerous for student tenants in study bedrooms with associated electrical appliances, theit own portable heaters etc. Electrical sockets are not allowed in a bathroom - wet hands and electricity. Will Building Control Inspectors have a view on this? |
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sheriff fatman
Posts:5
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| 08 Dec 2006 14:55:42 |
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| when have a council ever acted with common sense? i spoke to a minister who was involved in agreeing the licencing legislation and they had never rented a house in their life let alone have any knowledge of the industry. It is all about covering arses rather than protecting tenants. I urge everyone who pops on the site to join the RLA or the NAEA who have been constantly lobbying the govt to get a grip. |
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Johnson
Posts:23
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| 11 Dec 2006 04:31:04 |
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I really don't get this about the RLA and NAEA and their like. Lobbying the govt. is one thing but why fight it? Regulation is coming to this industry and probably about time too. We all know landlords and agents who are awful, some of them members of these 2 organisations!!!
We'd be better off working WITH government to get rid of the bad landlords and agents. The associations have got their own agenda and most of the time it seems to me that they're trying to prove to their members how clever they are whilst at the same time achieving little or nothing. In my opinion most of the associations seem to be set up just to offer employment to those that run them and we're expected to pay for it. I'd be really interested to know what difference any of the associations have ever made to anything in all the years they've been running. Very little I suspect.
Could it be we get the tenants we deserve??? |
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dminkin
Posts:26
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| 17 Dec 2006 07:06:58 |
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The NLA have done a lot to give Landlords a voice. They have regular meetings with MP's etc to put our point of view over. Unfortunately bodies like Shelter seem to tar us all with the same brush.As rogue Landlords. Of course there will always be a minority out there but the majority aren't. I agree with certain fire precautions in Licensed HMO's but Wash hand basins is just plain ridiculous.What purpose will this serve.
In a small bedroom it would take up unnecessary room,likely to be near an electrical socket too.
More regulation like this and then Landlords will sell up and there will be a shortage of this type of accomodation which is badly needed.
The cost of joining the NLA I think is around £75 a year with free regional meetings on all sorts of things.Discounts on insurance etc and invaluable advice. The previous writer should join first before slagging off an invaluable service. I also receive newsletters with very interesting articles.
The idea of licensing was to get all regions having the same rules over the country.This is not true now with Wales scrapping wash basin requirements.
The NLA is working with the government.Doesn't mean they have to agree with all legisalation does it? |
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ronmi
Posts:2
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| 17 Dec 2006 11:48:58 |
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I entirely agree with dminkin. I am a member of the NLA and The Guild of Residential Landlords and we hold several meetings a year to discuss how we can represent the landlords point of view.
It is only recently that the views of landlords have been taken on board, too late, often, to make any difference to the legislation.
The truth is, this government have been running their own agenda- they are anti- private landlord. It is only after a change in administration on our Council that we have been allowed to gain access to the relevent officers to put our point of view. We now have a good working relations with officers who attend our meetings on a regular basis.
The good landlords, the majority of landlords, have been made to suffer for the few bad ones. |
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Johnson
Posts:23
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| 18 Dec 2006 10:17:26 |
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I'm delighted that ronmi and dminkin attend their local branch meetings but the reality is that landlords associations have done very little for landlords over the years. There are at least 800,000 landlords in the UK and less than 15,000 are members of any association. Little wonder that government takes neither the associations or landlords in general seriously. Even fewer attend landlord forum meetings held by local authorities and yet these are designed to give landlords a voice with the regulators in each area.
Being a member of the NLA, RLA, NAEA etc, etc doesn't make a landlord a good landlord and government know this. It doesn't mean that government are anti landlord because they don't do everything that these associations suggest either. Every landlord seems to think that it is 'other' landlords who are the problem. It is true that the majority of landlords are good, but the definition is very much in the eye of the beholder. What this industry needs and will get is regulation. It needs it because there are too many bad landlords and will get it because landlords have allowed it in, just like financial services did.
This isn't about wash basins, it's about an industry that has buried it's head in the sand for far too long. The associations have only added to the problem. I've been to the meetings and been a member in the past and I know this to be true. As far as the benefits are concerned, you can get everything the associations offer elsewhere and cheaper too. |
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dminkin
Posts:26
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| 19 Dec 2006 11:33:02 |
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Little wonder that government take no notice?
They have just awarded the NLA the running of an Insurance backed Tenancy deposit scheme.
I think this disproves Mr johnsons argument.
He obviously doesn't wish to comment on the wash hand basin saga as it doesn't affect him.
But it will affect thousands of Landlords who will need to spend needless amounts of money for no valid reason.
Can someone please tell me the reason for this requirement.
Only on 3 storey houses with 5 or more sharers.Regardless of amount of bathrooms in the property?
Legislation gone mad! This will drive HMO landlords out.
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Johnson
Posts:23
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| 20 Dec 2006 04:39:35 |
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It's good to see some debate, but I can't agree with you dminkin. If the measure of success for a landlords association is the government awarding them the right to run a tenant deposit scheme then we really are in trouble as an industry. The most vocal opponents of a tenant deposit scheme have been landlords, especially the associations and yet this is now claimed as a victory???!!! Never mind meeting with politicians, you should be in politics if you can spin that one as a positive.
The wash handbasins saga? The end of the world saga more like. It is true that I don't have any HMOs that fall into this legislation but I am seriously looking to get into the market and installing a few basins won't change my view one way or the other.
I come back to my central point, the point you didn't answer, government will only take seriously the groups/organisations/industry that gets it's message across the loudest and most consistant. The reason Shelter win is that they are organised, professional and have a consistant message. The fact that you don't like it is neither here not there. Whilst the associations have cosy little meetings with their local MPs Shelter drum up huge issue campaigns in the national media and put their agenda on the Cabinet table. No wonder lanndlords feel hard done to. It's like Dad's Army facing the Panzer Corps, good for a laugh but utterly futile in reality.
Landlords need a serious reality check if this is the best we can do collectively. |
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dminkin
Posts:26
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| 21 Dec 2006 16:42:53 |
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It's not a measure of success but it means the government are putting a lot of trust in the NLA. NO they didn't agree with the tenancy deposit scheme and nor do I, but I'm sure it will be better managed under the NLA.
Responsible regulation is what we all want.There are currently 50 acts of parliament and 75 separate sets of regulations affecting the private letting of residential property.
No wonder this is driving lanlords out.
The government is keen that the new regime doesn't have an adverse impact on the sector!! What a joke.
The NLA beieve it or not does encourage good practise amongst members.The NLA is looking after our interests.
We want equal treatment from each local authority and the same demands on us to be imposed on public and social housing sectors so as not to alienate us.
Why should one authority say you must do something and another not?
Adding " a few wash hand basins" is not always as easy as Mr Johnson thinks.I suggest he speaks to a plumber and mentions position of drains,concrete floors etc.Very costly and impossible sometimes.(esp when not budgeted for) in initial purchase,water pressure etc.Nobody has yet told me a good reason for them either.
I have a few bedsit problems with multiple sinks.(In 2 of them I had to have a larger water main run to the property.
This is a necessity with bedsits I know but not in a shared house where people are living as one unit and sharing all facilities.If we don't have bodies representing us in having our say then idiot MP's who know very little about our industry will walk all over us. |
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Johnson
Posts:23
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| 24 Dec 2006 11:52:37 |
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Incredible, you did spin tenancy deposits as good thing, at least in the safe hands of the NLA. But still you didn't answer the central point. Landlords can't get their act together, the associations are too busy fighting government to realise the battle is llost and we still await the reality check. Forget arguing about wash hand basins, you've lost that battle. You also claim this is driving landlords out. There are more landlords now than at any other time, but even fewer of us choose to join an association. Why? Because you don't offer us anything except on-going fight with 'idiot MPs' and 'legislation gone mad' (your words).
The answer lies in landlord's hands. My advice for this industry would be to:
1. Get accredited by the local authority
2. Implement a Society of Landlords instead of all these self seeking little landlords associations
3. Force government and local authorities to implement an accredited tenants scheme
Won't happen and organisations like Shelter must be killing themselves laughing. As long as the criteria is that the NLA 'encourages good practice' rather than demand it as a pre-requisite for membership you will always lose. By the way, if you think I'm picking on the NLA i have just the same level of comtempt and ridicule for all the other associations, some of which are a complete and utter joke. |
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dminkin
Posts:26
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| 02 Jan 2007 10:14:23 |
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As far as I'm concerned the NLA is a society of Landlords.As far as the people I've met including the senior ones,they are all Landlords.I can't speak for any other group.
Research done by my lender shows over regulation is and will drive Landlords out.
Numbers may be increasing but only for properties which don't require any legislation i.e. flats owned individually or 2 storey-houses let to families.
Unfortunately in todays world there is strong demand for single unit dwellings i.e. bedsits,shared houses etc.
This is due to increasing student numbers,high divorce rates and migrant workers.
These types of properties require sensible fire precautions,good,basic living standards etc.Nobody disputes this(well,maybe some do).The government needs to be very careful about other stupid rules,unless they wish to provide 100% grants of course!
Mr/Mrs Johnson says Landlords need to get their act together.How many Rogue Landlords does he know of? I don't know of any nor have heard of many cases at all in recent years of prosecution. |
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Johnson
Posts:23
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| 03 Jan 2007 05:08:58 |
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dminkin you constantly avoid the issues and dodge the questions and in my opinion live in a world that ignores the reality of what's happening in this industry.
Did you ever stop to wonder why your lender did the research and were you really surprised at the findings??? If so then you need a reality check.
Take a look at Financial Services. 6/7 years ago there were around 250,000 financial advisers. Today there are around 40,000. One of the major reasons for this has been regulation, increasing regulation. But the real reason is the willingness of the public to demand compensation for every stupid decision that the public makes. Endowment scandals, pension miss-selling, and on and on. You get the regulation your industry deserves or allows to happen. The lettings industry is fragmented, totally unorganised and has a terrible reputation with the general public. Organisations like Shelter exploit this to the full and the NLA, RLA and the rest can't and won't change that.
Having said that the financial advisers that remain are now earning more money that ever before. They can pick and choose their clients and the regulation has effectively immunised then from future prosecution. This is the blueprint for the future of the lettings industry. There will be fewer landlords, fewer agents, much more regulation and far more tenants needing to be housed. Large landlords and niche players will dominate. No wonder your lender is worried - are you??
You talk about rogue landlords and prosecution. The reality is that the only reason more landlords are not prosecuted is that local authorities haven't got the resources or time. This will change, they will generate income from regulation and this will be used to police the lettings industry. This is the future that the NLA, RLA and the rest ignore. Smart landlords are now getting accredited by their local authority, getting their act together and running a business. There will be the winners, the losers will get hammered. You have seen the future, it's called the Financial Services Act and it's brother is coming to a landlord near you soon. |
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dminkin
Posts:26
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| 03 Jan 2007 14:32:56 |
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I am accredited,but to me it's a waste of time.I'm only accredited because it saves me a bit of money on my license fee.What does it do?
Every 5 years I get an inspection from a council official who knows nothing about the lettings industry.
They check I have an electrical safety certificate,gas safety check and fire precautions in order.
These are only checked on 3 storey HMO properties.What percentage of let properties do these make up? Very few I suspect.
I need to have these things for the license anyway so why the need for accreditation?
To save the government money in not having to inspect the property.Thats why.They want to take my word that I'm an honest landlord to save them time and money.
They don't care about the tenants safety.
Regulation is fine if done sensibly.I'm not avoiding anything.I'm just for an association of Landlords looking after our interests because on our own we don't have a voice at all.
Johnson seems to have one voice not shared by any other members on this forum.pretty similar I would say.
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Chris Cooper
Posts:4
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| 04 Jan 2007 10:25:48 |
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| In my area accreditation doesn't just cover hmo's and it's been running for years. Speaking personally I get more financial advantage out of accreditation that I do from my landlords association. Maybe you need to get more involved with your local authority and start to get them to organise some tangible benefits to their scheme. I'm with johnson in that landlords have to get their act together. We've spent far too long ignoring the fact that there is a significant minority of landlords who cause problems and give the industry a bad name. Consumer organisations like Shelter have had it all their own way because we won't get organised and sort our own house out. |
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