| Author |
Messages |
|
maryandwarren
Posts:7
 |
| 02 Mar 2011 06:58:36 |
 Alert
|
I was interested to read Netrent's comments on the new proposed Ratings Website for Landlords, where tenants can make comments on landlords so that future tenants can 'check the landlord out' before committing to a tenancy agreement.
I think the most likely people to make comments on a website will be the ones with whom landlords have had problems - i.e. those who haven't paid on time, those who have damaged property and have had charges made from deposits, etc. The website is therefore likely to be very one-sided. Bad tenants (maybe ones who have had to be evicted, ones who have caused damage) could easily invent problems they have had with their landlord - how could anyone ever be sure that the comments placed on the website are true? If they are not, they could cause a lot of anguish and financial loss to the landlord, which is obviously what a bad tenant with a grudge would want.
We always recommend to prospective tenants that they speak to our current tenants - because we look after them well, we are confident that our current tenants would always recommend us to new tenants. This is surely a better way than searching the website for an anonymous report. |
|
|
|
|
CrashPads
Posts:5
|
| 02 Mar 2011 07:34:32 |
Alert
|
Mary & Warren are right.
What a ludicrous idea! NetRent are entirely correct in saying that this just becomes a one sided slanging match.
What recourse will Landlords have to sue to contributors / the web host for libel and loss of income?
We are already aware of factually incorrect information about us being given to prospective tenants by a vindictive 'quasi' official body and that this has led to loss of revenue.
We pride ourselves in the quality of our properties and the service we provide. Our tenants, generally, can not believe their luck. Yet, our experience is that happy tenants move on and are unlikely to bother to give testimonials or post good comments on forum, yet disgruntled tenants are very likely to.
The idea of a Ratings Website also disregards how spectacularly inexperienced and ignorant tenants can be (we specialise in students). For instance, on the occasions that tenants get heated because we have not returned the deposit; this is because they have not kept us up-to-date with their address. Yet, even their letters threatening to take us to court, do not include their address. Experienced landlords reading this will not be surprised - many of us could write a book of such incredible experiences.
There is already a colossal amount of regulation - no more is needed.
We provide an important service as part of our tenants' educational experience - the people who seek to impose regulation (such as requiring planning permission) are likely to themselves have benefited in the past or to send their children to universities where they rent. |
|
|
|
|
Landlord for 30 years
Posts:2
|
| 02 Mar 2011 07:40:04 |
Alert
|
If any website is going to be set up, surely it goes without saying that it must be available to BOTH tenants and landlords. What verification would there be that either party is who they say they are? What is to stop a landlord from going on there, registering as tenant and bigging himself up, or a rival landlord to go on there and diss his competitors, or a tenant to go on there as a landlord and say what a top geezer the tenant is, and so on and so on... It seems like a minefield of slander and libel waiting to happen, and likely to be so inaccurate as to be rendered a waste of time anyway!!!
No doubt some will say that Landlords could only log in via a registration number from ARLA or whoever, but that doesn't solve the problem of tenants masquerading as others, or landlords masquerading as tenants, and so on, and still ends up being another form of control over landlords, rather than tenants. I have been a landlord all my life, and manage my own property portfolio, advertising and vetting professional tenants direct, so I have no need to register with ARLA or use the services of agents, and wouldn't want to be forced in to having to register with them in order to defend myself against comments from the occasional malicious tenant.
|
|
|
|
|
Landlord for 30 years
Posts:2
|
| 02 Mar 2011 07:40:06 |
Alert
|
If any website is going to be set up, surely it goes without saying that it must be available to BOTH tenants and landlords. What verification would there be that either party is who they say they are? What is to stop a landlord from going on there, registering as tenant and bigging himself up, or a rival landlord to go on there and diss his competitors, or a tenant to go on there as a landlord and say what a top geezer the tenant is, and so on and so on... It seems like a minefield of slander and libel waiting to happen, and likely to be so inaccurate as to be rendered a waste of time anyway!!!
No doubt some will say that Landlords could only log in via a registration number from ARLA or whoever, but that doesn't solve the problem of tenants masquerading as others, or landlords masquerading as tenants, and so on, and still ends up being another form of control over landlords, rather than tenants. I have been a landlord all my life, and manage my own property portfolio, advertising and vetting professional tenants direct, so I have no need to register with ARLA or use the services of agents, and wouldn't want to be forced in to having to register with them in order to defend myself against comments from the occasional malicious tenant.
|
|
|
|
|
CrashPads
Posts:5
|
| 02 Mar 2011 07:56:07 |
Alert
|
| Found a logical error in this forum, therefore had to post this so I can subscribe ( ! ) |
|
|
|
|
Bill the Landlord
Posts:18
|
| 02 Mar 2011 09:08:50 |
Alert
|
I notice that Consumer Focus think the ebay is a good example of how constructive feedback can work. Clearly they have no idea how ebay's feedback system actually works. On ebay it's all too easy to get a negative feedback and once on there there's virtually nothing you can do to get the negative feedback removed.
This website is a stupid idea, dreampt up by a body that clearly has no idea how the real world functions |
|
|
|
|
sanchezs
Posts:1
|
| 03 Mar 2011 06:21:43 |
Alert
|
Wholeheartedly agree with the consensus of comments already posted. I can't see any comments that favour a 'name and shame' landlords website!
We have free speech in this country so people can say what they like, but we also have laws to protect against libel and slander. This 'forum' would seem to encourage irresponsible rantings that (a) could lead to increased legal actions (b) damage landlords' reputations unfairly. It's a daft idea.
I am a good landlord who supplies high quality properties which are good value for money and I provide my tenants with appropriate support in a timely manner. However, I have still had the misfortune to have rented to people who think it is okay to stop paying the rent and damage the property (spilling makeup and fake tan all over new carpets for example) and still expect their deposits to be returned! These tenants would surely have posted negative comments about their experiences (unfairly) and the 95% happy tenants are unlikely to say how positive their experience was.
|
|
|
|
|
AlanW
Posts:1
|
| 03 Mar 2011 08:33:02 |
Alert
|
There must be concern about vindictive or malicious tenants posting on a Trip Adviser-type system which would require moderating, and therefore have considerable cost.
Tenants are almost universally un-informed about renting – they take more care when buying a car. Tenants never ask to see gas, electric or EPC certificates, and a good landlord should not object to being asked for a reference.
However, high demand for property often means that tenants make instant decisions to take a property rather than lose it.
The RLA is deeply suspicious of the populist sentiment behind this report and pretentious titling of reputational regulation. Hopefully the CLG will remain true to its declaration last October that the PRS doesn't need any more regulation.
Accreditation and self regulation is a far better approach for the majority of complaint landlord, combined with better informed tenants.
Alan Ward
Chairman, Residential Landlords Association
|
|
|
|
|
Paul Mac
Posts:56
|
| 03 Mar 2011 12:46:32 |
Alert
|
Alan - accreditation may help with raising standards but in my opinion self regulation means nothing. I'm not advocating a headlong rush into more legislation for landlords but unless and until there is some form of independent regulation for landlords these scares will continue to raise their ugly heads.
I also have concerns about landlord associations like the RLA pushing their own agenda on accreditation and self regulation. There seems to be an attempt by the RLA to 'cosy up' to local authorities by, in the RLA's case, employing ex local authority staff who were previously big wigs in accreditation. The NLA are also spending too much of their time and their members money on joint ventures with local authorities.
In my opinion, in simple terms, landlord associations are there to represent their members whilst local authorities are there to police landlords. Both the RLA and NLA are trying to offer local authorities a quick route to accreditation by taking on landlord accreditation themselves. You cannot be all things to all men (and women). Whilst you have to work with local authorities you cannot work FOR local authorities if you want to claim that you work for landlords. The reason that you're trying to get in with local authorities is to try and get more members signed up to your association and you're wrong if you think that landlords can't spot what you're doing |
|
|
|
|
Tim
Posts:6
|
| 04 Mar 2011 05:00:45 |
Alert
|
| There's a landlord rating website already - called something like rate or hate. The title says it all really. Let's face it landlords are always going to be the bad guys and tenants are always going to be the good guys, some things are a given. All nurses are angels, all politicians are liars and on and on |
|
|
|
|
Lizzie
Posts:25
|
| 07 Mar 2011 18:36:44 |
Alert
|
| I have to disagree with AlanW, in my experience, and in the experience of many landlords I speak to, tenants know a great deal about renting. They often know more about it than the landlords they are renting from and that's why so many landlords get into trouble. Have you never asked yourself why they don't ask to see an EPC? I also find it incredible that the chairman of a landlords association thinks that self regulation will work. We've had self regulation for hundreds of years and still the media can find umpteen sticks to beat us with. |
|
|
|
|
Leon
Posts:1
|
| 08 Mar 2011 06:32:01 |
Alert
|
I just don't get this crazy idea that somehow landlords can self regulate. What evidence is there that any industry can self regulate?
I'm sick to death of crap landlords dragging my industry down. No-one gets at the bad landlords but we all know who they are and where their properties are.
I wouldn't put my kids in some of the hell holes that some landlords operate. Why should anyone have to live in squalor?
I'm all for regulation of landlords. So what if it costs a few quid a year at least it will get rid of some of the s*** landlords and let the good landlords earn a decent living and be respected for offering good honest homes to people |
|
|
|
|
maryandwarren
Posts:7
|
| 08 Mar 2011 06:45:55 |
Alert
|
Unfortunately the s*** landlords will still slip through the net, whatever regulations are put in place, because they just won't bother to register and because the people they rent to are not in a position to complain (e.g. illegal immigrants). These are the worst of the worst landlords, and every town and city has areas where it's obvious that the houses are run by very bad landlords. There are still landlords out there who don't have their gas and electricity checked, who don't have their deposits protected and who don't look after their own houses.
As long as it's left to the landlords to register with whatever organisation is required (e.g. The DPS), the bad landlords will just not bother, and they get away with it. I don't know what the answer is, but I would suggest that councils began by checking out the obviously badly run houses in their areas. I would imagine they'd immediately find quite a few landlords to prosecute. |
|
|
|
|
Paul Mac
Posts:56
|
| 08 Mar 2011 09:20:00 |
Alert
|
[quote]Posted By maryandwarren on 08 Mar 2011 06:45:55
Unfortunately the s*** landlords will still slip through the net, whatever regulations are put in place, because they just won't bother to register and because the people they rent to are not in a position to complain (e.g. illegal immigrants). These are the worst of the worst landlords, and every town and city has areas where it's obvious that the houses are run by very bad landlords. There are still landlords out there who don't have their gas and electricity checked, who don't have their deposits protected and who don't look after their own houses.
As long as it's left to the landlords to register with whatever organisation is required (e.g. The DPS), the bad landlords will just not bother, and they get away with it. I don't know what the answer is, but I would suggest that councils began by checking out the obviously badly run houses in their areas. I would imagine they'd immediately find quite a few landlords to prosecute.[/quote]
And that's exactly why councils should be the regulators not the NLA or RLA or any other landlords body. Councils have the power and the legislation to stop bad landlords tomorrow, if they have the will. It's quite simple really, make it mandatory to register if you want to rent any size of room or property and then police that registration effectively with big fines for those who don't register. It could be funded by subscription by landlords so long as that money is channelled to the councils to use to fund people to police the scheme.
It's the only way to end this and the sooner that landlords face facts the quicker we'll resolve this problem. |
|
|
|
|
Rocking Robin
Posts:2
|
| 08 Mar 2011 11:21:37 |
Alert
|
| I cannot believe that a landlord would suggest that we should have further regulation....and pay for the privilege!! Paul Mac - Hang your head in shame |
|
|
|
|
Paul Mac
Posts:56
|
| 11 Mar 2011 11:58:21 |
Alert
|
[quote]Posted By Rocking Robin on 08 Mar 2011 11:21:37
I cannot believe that a landlord would suggest that we should have further regulation....and pay for the privilege!! Paul Mac - Hang your head in shame[/quote]
I'm sorry you feel like that but the current system doesn't work. Anyone can be a landlord, there's no regulation, too many 'landlords' don't have EPCs, gas safety certs, proper insurance and anything else that complies with the law. Far too often the media drag our industry through the mud. It reminds me of car tax. All the good, law abiding motorists pay their car tax and insurance and pay a heavy price for all the cheats who drive around without a care in the world without tax and insurance - and more often than not without a licence. Or maybe you think that's OK as well? |
|
|
|
|
Rocking Robin
Posts:2
|
| 14 Mar 2011 11:57:27 |
Alert
|
[quote]Posted By Paul Mac on 11 Mar 2011 11:58:21
[quote]Posted By Rocking Robin on 08 Mar 2011 11:21:37
I cannot believe that a landlord would suggest that we should have further regulation....and pay for the privilege!! Paul Mac - Hang your head in shame[/quote]
I'm sorry you feel like that but the current system doesn't work. Anyone can be a landlord, there's no regulation, too many 'landlords' don't have EPCs, gas safety certs, proper insurance and anything else that complies with the law. Far too often the media drag our industry through the mud. It reminds me of car tax. All the good, law abiding motorists pay their car tax and insurance and pay a heavy price for all the cheats who drive around without a care in the world without tax and insurance - and more often than not without a licence. Or maybe you think that's OK as well?[/quote]
I don't think the 2 things can be compared but those landlords who fail to get the correct paperwork should be taken to task.
My point is about further regulation.....I don't think we need it |
|
|
|
|
Paul Mac
Posts:56
|
| 14 Mar 2011 19:44:14 |
Alert
|
As long as we fail to have a real, accoutable, regulated lettings industry bodies like the CAB and Shelter will continue to bitch and moan at landlords. As I've said the landlord associations are not the bodies who should regulate us, they should be out there fighting our corner. The only bodies that can and should regulate this industry are councils who should be properly funded and staffed and should close bad landlords down.
Landlord associations should stop trying to be everything to everyone. They shouldn't run accreditation schemes, they should start to do the job they were set up to do. |
|
|
|
|
cosmo146
Posts:2
|
| 12 Apr 2011 23:20:23 |
Alert
|
wow ! paul mac, you speak in strange tongue. for a landlord.
the problem is respect. we landlords do not have any from the general public, councils, tenants nor the police.
we are cash cows. we are the ones everyone can abuse with impunity. that's it. and the reason for this is...
because you cannot steal a loaf of bread without the possibility of getting a criminal record
but you are actively encouraged to steal accommodation by the laws we have.
make theft of accommodation a criminal offence and we gain the respect we rightly deserve.
you know how hard you work to make things good for your tenants but to the councils of these lands it is never good enough.
as for a rating system, I feel it would be far better than any council controlling us with there ideas of what we should have or shouldn't have
in trip advisor everyone can post a reply to any comment. have a look at www.airbandb.com they are an oddball B and B exchange site
and have a feedback section. works very well. there are lots of similar sites with feedback sections. all work very well. why ?
because they are not subject to the insane laws that govern landlords. there lays the difference. so that is what we have to target first.
the law.
[b] [/b] |
|
|
|
|
Paul Mac
Posts:56
|
| 13 Apr 2011 06:55:07 |
Alert
|
[quote]Posted By cosmo146 on 12 Apr 2011 23:20:23
wow ! paul mac, you speak in strange tongue. for a landlord.
the problem is respect. we landlords do not have any from the general public, councils, tenants nor the police.
we are cash cows. we are the ones everyone can abuse with impunity. that's it. and the reason for this is...
because you cannot steal a loaf of bread without the possibility of getting a criminal record
but you are actively encouraged to steal accommodation by the laws we have.
make theft of accommodation a criminal offence and we gain the respect we rightly deserve.
you know how hard you work to make things good for your tenants but to the councils of these lands it is never good enough.
as for a rating system, I feel it would be far better than any council controlling us with there ideas of what we should have or shouldn't have
in trip advisor everyone can post a reply to any comment. have a look at www.airbandb.com they are an oddball B and B exchange site
and have a feedback section. works very well. there are lots of similar sites with feedback sections. all work very well. why ?
because they are not subject to the insane laws that govern landlords. there lays the difference. so that is what we have to target first.
the law.
[b] [/b][/quote]
Let's be honest, the lettings industry is in a right old mess. There are over 70 different bits of legislation that apply and the application of those differs throughout the UK. At the same time organisations like shelter and the CAB are having a field day with landlord battering campaigns. The landlord associations are more interested in boosting their revenue that actually helping and fighting for landlords and councils are having their budgets slashed. The government seems set to allow a free for all in the lettings market. As demand grows more and more landlords will take short cuts and tenant complaints will only grow.
In short it's a bloody mess.
Someone needs to start taking a grip now because what is going to happen is that the 'horror' stories that tenants complain about will only grow and greedy, Rachman style landlords will get the blame. Eventually the government will be forced to act and the axe will come down heavy and brutal. If you want to know what this will look like have a look at the financial services industry.
Landlords can either bury their heads in the sand or face facts. A Trip Advisor style website already exists called Rate or Hate. The title alone says it all. Even good landlords are going to get caught in the fall out that is bound to come. The associations are using this as an excuse to generate income offering councils their 'services' and we'll all end up paying their unwarranted fees PLUS big fees to become registered. They'll make a fortune like the NLA do with Hamilton Fraser and the RLA do with Rentguard.
Please feel free to go on believing that I'm an odd bod. I'm not the problem, landlord inertia is the problem and we are heading for a serious fall. |
|
|
|
|
|